"This can be compared to Ukraine, which during the same period of tumultuous revolutionary rebellions supported by the United States received NATO training and also billions of dollars worth of arms shipments. Some of this training and equipment benefitted Ukrainian nationalist fanatics too, and some of them wreaked havoc across Ukraine, targeting disfavored ethnic groups, including Russians. These fanatics also threatened the future of reconciliation between the separatists in the Donbass and the regime in Kiev."
You make the neonazis in Ukraine sound like 'outsiders' when the opposite is the reality. Far from being extremist, fanatics on the fringe of Ukrainian society, they are in fact, integrated into the Ukrainian state, from education to the military! You ignore the role of fascism in the making of modern Ukraine, especially its connection to German Nazism and the Ukrainian participation in the slaughter of 100s of 1000s of Ukrainian Jews, Roma and Slavs, during the Great Patriotic War.
Sir where do you get your information? Solovyov, Lavrov, Skabeeva, Kisselyov, Zero hedge or the serbians? Did you ever notice the trends regarding what has happened to nations who have sided with and/or succumbed to russia vs the civilized world? West vs East Germany, North/south Korea, modern Belarus vs neighbouring Poland or Baltics? It's the economy, stupid (not to imply north korea or the other friends of muscovian bastards ever had an upper hand in freedom of expression or land rights etc) Anybody who had anything to do with Russia or Russians was always bankrupt, corrupted and persecuted, ok maybe some polar/siberian/central asian or caucasus tribes managed to improve their gdp coz their level of civilization was even lower than that of the russians. Average wage in the superpower of russia's provinces is 300-600 usd, while a banana, an iphone or a car spare part at best costs no less than in Europe (where a monthly wage earns 5-10+x of said items compared to your noble "superpower"). Why would any sensible Ukrainian voluntarily choose to be a vassal of this nation of bare-bottomed bums, (albeit with nukes)? Surely it took the coercion of America to convince them.
I've read comparisons to Somalia, Afghanistan, and now Syria. My own comparison would be to Palestine/Israel, with the Ukrainians as the Palestinians and the Russians as the Israelis.
Russia/Israel is bigger and stronger conventionally, it's accused of war crimes when it bombs civilians, denies the reality of the other side's national aspirations, and is being boycotted by a coalition of hostile states.
Ukraine/Palestine uses sneaky tactics to make the other side look bad (like using civilian facilities for military purposes), has a fairly new-minted national identity, and can't survive without massive infusions of outside aid and crying poor, and demanding that the rest of the world "cancel" their enemy.
Not a particularly good analogy, as, among other things, Russia has been in the area for centuries, and a significant portion of the Ukrainian population supports Russia.
Then there's the fact that Israel and Ukraine (but NOT Russia) would immediately collapse without billions of Western dollars worth of arms, cash and direct and indirect subsidies. Then there's the whole "sacred cow" status in the West, which Israel and Ukraine enjoy, while Russia is a pariah that can do no right.
"Not a particularly good analogy, as, among other things, Russia has been in the area for centuries"
Jews have been "in the area" for millennia. The Ukrainians who support Russia are comparable to Israeli settlers, descendants of people who came with a conquering ethos and developed the place.
"Then there's the fact that Israel and Ukraine (but NOT Russia) would immediately collapse without billions of Western dollars worth of arms, cash and direct and indirect subsidies. "
Israel's GDP is 402 bn USD. It's now a part of China's Belt & Road initiative. It has natural gas reserves for the next 100 years offshore. Try harder.
"Then there's the whole "sacred cow" status in the West, which Israel and Ukraine enjoy, while Russia is a pariah that can do no right."
Thanks for reminding me - too many, Israel's the pariah that can do no right, another analogy. You prove it with your words.
Hmmmmm....?
You write:
"This can be compared to Ukraine, which during the same period of tumultuous revolutionary rebellions supported by the United States received NATO training and also billions of dollars worth of arms shipments. Some of this training and equipment benefitted Ukrainian nationalist fanatics too, and some of them wreaked havoc across Ukraine, targeting disfavored ethnic groups, including Russians. These fanatics also threatened the future of reconciliation between the separatists in the Donbass and the regime in Kiev."
You make the neonazis in Ukraine sound like 'outsiders' when the opposite is the reality. Far from being extremist, fanatics on the fringe of Ukrainian society, they are in fact, integrated into the Ukrainian state, from education to the military! You ignore the role of fascism in the making of modern Ukraine, especially its connection to German Nazism and the Ukrainian participation in the slaughter of 100s of 1000s of Ukrainian Jews, Roma and Slavs, during the Great Patriotic War.
Sir where do you get your information? Solovyov, Lavrov, Skabeeva, Kisselyov, Zero hedge or the serbians? Did you ever notice the trends regarding what has happened to nations who have sided with and/or succumbed to russia vs the civilized world? West vs East Germany, North/south Korea, modern Belarus vs neighbouring Poland or Baltics? It's the economy, stupid (not to imply north korea or the other friends of muscovian bastards ever had an upper hand in freedom of expression or land rights etc) Anybody who had anything to do with Russia or Russians was always bankrupt, corrupted and persecuted, ok maybe some polar/siberian/central asian or caucasus tribes managed to improve their gdp coz their level of civilization was even lower than that of the russians. Average wage in the superpower of russia's provinces is 300-600 usd, while a banana, an iphone or a car spare part at best costs no less than in Europe (where a monthly wage earns 5-10+x of said items compared to your noble "superpower"). Why would any sensible Ukrainian voluntarily choose to be a vassal of this nation of bare-bottomed bums, (albeit with nukes)? Surely it took the coercion of America to convince them.
I've read comparisons to Somalia, Afghanistan, and now Syria. My own comparison would be to Palestine/Israel, with the Ukrainians as the Palestinians and the Russians as the Israelis.
Russia/Israel is bigger and stronger conventionally, it's accused of war crimes when it bombs civilians, denies the reality of the other side's national aspirations, and is being boycotted by a coalition of hostile states.
Ukraine/Palestine uses sneaky tactics to make the other side look bad (like using civilian facilities for military purposes), has a fairly new-minted national identity, and can't survive without massive infusions of outside aid and crying poor, and demanding that the rest of the world "cancel" their enemy.
No analogy is perfect, but this works for me.
Not a particularly good analogy, as, among other things, Russia has been in the area for centuries, and a significant portion of the Ukrainian population supports Russia.
Then there's the fact that Israel and Ukraine (but NOT Russia) would immediately collapse without billions of Western dollars worth of arms, cash and direct and indirect subsidies. Then there's the whole "sacred cow" status in the West, which Israel and Ukraine enjoy, while Russia is a pariah that can do no right.
"Not a particularly good analogy, as, among other things, Russia has been in the area for centuries"
Jews have been "in the area" for millennia. The Ukrainians who support Russia are comparable to Israeli settlers, descendants of people who came with a conquering ethos and developed the place.
"Then there's the fact that Israel and Ukraine (but NOT Russia) would immediately collapse without billions of Western dollars worth of arms, cash and direct and indirect subsidies. "
Israel's GDP is 402 bn USD. It's now a part of China's Belt & Road initiative. It has natural gas reserves for the next 100 years offshore. Try harder.
"Then there's the whole "sacred cow" status in the West, which Israel and Ukraine enjoy, while Russia is a pariah that can do no right."
Thanks for reminding me - too many, Israel's the pariah that can do no right, another analogy. You prove it with your words.
There's been a Jewish state in what is now Israel for millenia? Do tell.
And if you think that Israel is not dependent upon US aid, or that Israel does not demand and get special pleading...